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	<title>Comments on: Backsliding&#8230; &#8220;Jim&#8221; painting 80 x 44 inches (image area) &#8212; a colorful MESS</title>
	<atom:link href="http://mlyon.com/2007/02/backsliding-jim-painting-80-x-44-inches-image-area-a-colorful-mess/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://mlyon.com/2007/02/backsliding-jim-painting-80-x-44-inches-image-area-a-colorful-mess/</link>
	<description>Mike Lyon painting, drawing, printmaking, furniture, photography, and other stuff</description>
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		<title>By: Andrew Edwards</title>
		<link>http://mlyon.com/2007/02/backsliding-jim-painting-80-x-44-inches-image-area-a-colorful-mess/#comment-111</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Edwards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jun 2007 01:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mlyon.com/2007/02/backsliding-jim-painting-80-x-44-inches-image-area-a-colorful-mess/#comment-111</guid>
		<description>Great. I really like the mix of engineering and art. This may be going in the direction of an ink jet printer, but I doubt this - all the little engineering decisions are subtly different due to an aethestic intent, leading to interesting effects(diamond pixels).&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;One possible way through the desire for thin lines would be to have a mask screen with a tiny hole in it. It would get quickly clogged of course, but you could have absorbent stuff wicking the ink away or some thing like many belt sanders continually providing new and fresh 4 sided masks.&lt;br/&gt;Also a variety between crisp and blown lines would definately be pictorially interesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great. I really like the mix of engineering and art. This may be going in the direction of an ink jet printer, but I doubt this &#8211; all the little engineering decisions are subtly different due to an aethestic intent, leading to interesting effects(diamond pixels).</p>
<p>One possible way through the desire for thin lines would be to have a mask screen with a tiny hole in it. It would get quickly clogged of course, but you could have absorbent stuff wicking the ink away or some thing like many belt sanders continually providing new and fresh 4 sided masks.<br />Also a variety between crisp and blown lines would definately be pictorially interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: Annie B</title>
		<link>http://mlyon.com/2007/02/backsliding-jim-painting-80-x-44-inches-image-area-a-colorful-mess/#comment-106</link>
		<dc:creator>Annie B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Feb 2007 19:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mlyon.com/2007/02/backsliding-jim-painting-80-x-44-inches-image-area-a-colorful-mess/#comment-106</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not positive, but I suspect that &quot;fuzzy&quot; might be an inherent quality of airbrush. I hear you that you want a sharper line, but I think that if you could just eliminate the blotching and figure out how to keep the flow even you&#039;d be very happy with your results, fuzzy or not.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I hope you&#039;ll keep showing us examples of your progress, as it&#039;s pretty fascinating to watch. Good luck!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not positive, but I suspect that &#8220;fuzzy&#8221; might be an inherent quality of airbrush. I hear you that you want a sharper line, but I think that if you could just eliminate the blotching and figure out how to keep the flow even you&#8217;d be very happy with your results, fuzzy or not.</p>
<p>I hope you&#8217;ll keep showing us examples of your progress, as it&#8217;s pretty fascinating to watch. Good luck!</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Lyon</title>
		<link>http://mlyon.com/2007/02/backsliding-jim-painting-80-x-44-inches-image-area-a-colorful-mess/#comment-105</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Lyon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Feb 2007 16:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mlyon.com/2007/02/backsliding-jim-painting-80-x-44-inches-image-area-a-colorful-mess/#comment-105</guid>
		<description>My own thoughts are pretty well aligned with Annie B&#039;s -- the thing is MUCH more interesting &#039;up close&#039; than far away, damn it!  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&quot;Jim&quot; would be &#039;better&#039; if the left two thirds of him were cut off, I suppose, but it STILL wouldn&#039;t be very engaging from a distance.  I really do LIKE the saturated colors and the zillion variations on the theme of diamonds, squares, etc, but I DON&#039;T like the fuzziness of the sprayed lines - I want them to be super-sharp and clear (not fuzzy)...  AND I want the image as a whole (viewed from a distance) to be as strong as the layers of little parts which produce it...  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;This &quot;Jim&quot; painting doesn&#039;t come close (as Annie said -- and I said the same thing myself -- it looks like my inkjet is having ink cartridge problems -- that&#039;s actually pretty close to &#039;true&#039;) so I&#039;m hoping that after some more months of TOTAL CRAP I&#039;m able to produce painted work which approaches the level of my recent pen and ink drawings -- which I feel are far and away the best stuff I&#039;ve produced so far (kids not included)...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My own thoughts are pretty well aligned with Annie B&#8217;s &#8212; the thing is MUCH more interesting &#8216;up close&#8217; than far away, damn it!  </p>
<p>&#8220;Jim&#8221; would be &#8216;better&#8217; if the left two thirds of him were cut off, I suppose, but it STILL wouldn&#8217;t be very engaging from a distance.  I really do LIKE the saturated colors and the zillion variations on the theme of diamonds, squares, etc, but I DON&#8217;T like the fuzziness of the sprayed lines &#8211; I want them to be super-sharp and clear (not fuzzy)&#8230;  AND I want the image as a whole (viewed from a distance) to be as strong as the layers of little parts which produce it&#8230;  </p>
<p>This &#8220;Jim&#8221; painting doesn&#8217;t come close (as Annie said &#8212; and I said the same thing myself &#8212; it looks like my inkjet is having ink cartridge problems &#8212; that&#8217;s actually pretty close to &#8216;true&#8217;) so I&#8217;m hoping that after some more months of TOTAL CRAP I&#8217;m able to produce painted work which approaches the level of my recent pen and ink drawings &#8212; which I feel are far and away the best stuff I&#8217;ve produced so far (kids not included)&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Annie B</title>
		<link>http://mlyon.com/2007/02/backsliding-jim-painting-80-x-44-inches-image-area-a-colorful-mess/#comment-104</link>
		<dc:creator>Annie B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Feb 2007 14:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mlyon.com/2007/02/backsliding-jim-painting-80-x-44-inches-image-area-a-colorful-mess/#comment-104</guid>
		<description>Wow, I&#039;d cut Jim into small pieces and frame them separately, because to me the closeup views of the &quot;pixels&quot; are what&#039;s most interesting. The full drawing with its mistakes looks like stuff I&#039;ve seen come out of my Epson inkjet printer after I&#039;ve let it sit idle for too long - streaks, blotches, too light, too dark. (the yellow offset is a new one, though!)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I like Tom&#039;s idea of hiring a mistake-maker. I&#039;m available, and I make excellent mistakes, if I do say so myself.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Thanks for showing this. It&#039;s fabulous!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, I&#8217;d cut Jim into small pieces and frame them separately, because to me the closeup views of the &#8220;pixels&#8221; are what&#8217;s most interesting. The full drawing with its mistakes looks like stuff I&#8217;ve seen come out of my Epson inkjet printer after I&#8217;ve let it sit idle for too long &#8211; streaks, blotches, too light, too dark. (the yellow offset is a new one, though!)</p>
<p>I like Tom&#8217;s idea of hiring a mistake-maker. I&#8217;m available, and I make excellent mistakes, if I do say so myself.</p>
<p>Thanks for showing this. It&#8217;s fabulous!</p>
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		<title>By: AEleen</title>
		<link>http://mlyon.com/2007/02/backsliding-jim-painting-80-x-44-inches-image-area-a-colorful-mess/#comment-103</link>
		<dc:creator>AEleen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Feb 2007 06:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mlyon.com/2007/02/backsliding-jim-painting-80-x-44-inches-image-area-a-colorful-mess/#comment-103</guid>
		<description>Fantastic Mike. Really quite amazing. I am quite curious as to what the image looks like from a distance. Can you post an image of the image from, say, 15 feet away. I&#039;m wondering how much the eye smooths the image.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fantastic Mike. Really quite amazing. I am quite curious as to what the image looks like from a distance. Can you post an image of the image from, say, 15 feet away. I&#8217;m wondering how much the eye smooths the image.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom K</title>
		<link>http://mlyon.com/2007/02/backsliding-jim-painting-80-x-44-inches-image-area-a-colorful-mess/#comment-102</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Feb 2007 20:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mlyon.com/2007/02/backsliding-jim-painting-80-x-44-inches-image-area-a-colorful-mess/#comment-102</guid>
		<description>Mike,&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;To err is human...right? There&#039;s probably no point trying to convince you that the mistakes are good, but I do like the painting as it is. I like that you have reinvented the pixel. The choice of your &quot;gestures&quot; make the image beautifully Lyonesque. I like seeing the beauty of these nicely executed patches against the streaky areas. For me this is the first time that the struggle with the machine has bought an added poetic element. When carved blocks screw up they add nothing, likewise when the pen runs out of ink. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Of course I now expect you will produce near perfect paintings, but  perhaps you could allow for some mistakes? Which raises the question of how a mistake is made. If it is deliberate is it a &quot;real&quot; mistake? Who wears the mistake, the artist, the subject, the viewer, or the machine?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Perhaps you are incapable of making mistakes? Could you delegate  mistakes to another party? Surely you could hire an apprentice mistake maker? &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Keep going, good stuff ahead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike,</p>
<p>To err is human&#8230;right? There&#8217;s probably no point trying to convince you that the mistakes are good, but I do like the painting as it is. I like that you have reinvented the pixel. The choice of your &#8220;gestures&#8221; make the image beautifully Lyonesque. I like seeing the beauty of these nicely executed patches against the streaky areas. For me this is the first time that the struggle with the machine has bought an added poetic element. When carved blocks screw up they add nothing, likewise when the pen runs out of ink. </p>
<p>Of course I now expect you will produce near perfect paintings, but  perhaps you could allow for some mistakes? Which raises the question of how a mistake is made. If it is deliberate is it a &#8220;real&#8221; mistake? Who wears the mistake, the artist, the subject, the viewer, or the machine?</p>
<p>Perhaps you are incapable of making mistakes? Could you delegate  mistakes to another party? Surely you could hire an apprentice mistake maker? </p>
<p>Keep going, good stuff ahead.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://mlyon.com/2007/02/backsliding-jim-painting-80-x-44-inches-image-area-a-colorful-mess/#comment-101</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Feb 2007 18:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mlyon.com/2007/02/backsliding-jim-painting-80-x-44-inches-image-area-a-colorful-mess/#comment-101</guid>
		<description>Also, my first thought when I saw the video, was that the painting would go a lot faster if you re-ordered the drawing ops to do all the horizonatals together, then the verticals, then the diagonals. That way you&#039;d be making long sweeping movements and not changing direction all the time (sort of like an inkjet). Of course, the mistake patterns would be entirely different that way...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, my first thought when I saw the video, was that the painting would go a lot faster if you re-ordered the drawing ops to do all the horizonatals together, then the verticals, then the diagonals. That way you&#8217;d be making long sweeping movements and not changing direction all the time (sort of like an inkjet). Of course, the mistake patterns would be entirely different that way&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://mlyon.com/2007/02/backsliding-jim-painting-80-x-44-inches-image-area-a-colorful-mess/#comment-100</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Feb 2007 18:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mlyon.com/2007/02/backsliding-jim-painting-80-x-44-inches-image-area-a-colorful-mess/#comment-100</guid>
		<description>Wow Mike, that is pretty rad! I know the engineer in you wants to figure out how to fix all the &quot;mistakes&quot;, but I actually like it this way. The closer you get to perfection, the more it seems to me that you will just have taken a really long path to building your own inkjet printer, at which point it becomes kind of boring.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;As an aside, this is worth a look if you haven&#039;t seen it:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.hektor.ch/&quot; REL=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.hektor.ch/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;A reminder that your rig is not constrained to &quot;pixels&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow Mike, that is pretty rad! I know the engineer in you wants to figure out how to fix all the &#8220;mistakes&#8221;, but I actually like it this way. The closer you get to perfection, the more it seems to me that you will just have taken a really long path to building your own inkjet printer, at which point it becomes kind of boring.</p>
<p>As an aside, this is worth a look if you haven&#8217;t seen it:</p>
<p><a HREF="http://www.hektor.ch/" REL="nofollow">http://www.hektor.ch/</a></p>
<p>A reminder that your rig is not constrained to &#8220;pixels&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Lyon</title>
		<link>http://mlyon.com/2007/02/backsliding-jim-painting-80-x-44-inches-image-area-a-colorful-mess/#comment-99</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Lyon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Feb 2007 21:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mlyon.com/2007/02/backsliding-jim-painting-80-x-44-inches-image-area-a-colorful-mess/#comment-99</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Annie and thanks, Tom for your comments.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;About clogging...&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Hi, Tom…  The airbrush clogging has been mostly resolved now by a) starting with a CLEAN airbrush and b) carefully filtering the ink through a very fine filter paper prior to loading the airbrush.  I hope in a week or so to eliminate the problem by using a color formulated for airbrush (currently I’m just using pigmented ink optimized for pens, not airbrushes…  I hope that’ll do the trick – the new colors are advertised as “non-clogging” and are also lightfast pigments, so we’ll see…  But I am now getting better results and running up to about 15 hours although the line still seems to deform a bit over time…  The way the brush works, the paint is sucked by venture into a TINY little cone shaped nozzle with the tip cut off – it’s less than 1/64th inch hole and shallow cone (long and acute angle).  A ‘needle’ of the same geometry screws down into this funnel (cone) – when it’s screwed all the way down, it’s a closed valve and no paint can pass – as it’s unscrewed, a tiny passage is formed all the way around and paint can flow – as you continue to unscrew, the passage widens and more paint flows.  To make very thin lines, the passage is MINUTE and easy to stop up – which is what still eventually seems to happen.  By lowering the air pressure, I can open the valve a bit wider and avoid clogging a bit longer, but this also generates some spatter…  So we’ll have to see what happens with the new colors next week!  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Thanks for the suggestion!  By the way, I’m using an IWATA Revolution SAR (single action airbrush) – I totally admire the precision engineering of this gun – very tiny and very well machined parts, easy to disassemble and clean, and seems reliable and logical – WAY better than anything I can engineer and I have NO way to machine stuff to these close tolerances and small sizes at all!  Plus I haven’t been struck by any way to improve the thing – it’s quite ingenious and straight forward and…  Well, just very damned cool!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Annie and thanks, Tom for your comments.</p>
<p>About clogging&#8230;</p>
<p>Hi, Tom…  The airbrush clogging has been mostly resolved now by a) starting with a CLEAN airbrush and b) carefully filtering the ink through a very fine filter paper prior to loading the airbrush.  I hope in a week or so to eliminate the problem by using a color formulated for airbrush (currently I’m just using pigmented ink optimized for pens, not airbrushes…  I hope that’ll do the trick – the new colors are advertised as “non-clogging” and are also lightfast pigments, so we’ll see…  But I am now getting better results and running up to about 15 hours although the line still seems to deform a bit over time…  The way the brush works, the paint is sucked by venture into a TINY little cone shaped nozzle with the tip cut off – it’s less than 1/64th inch hole and shallow cone (long and acute angle).  A ‘needle’ of the same geometry screws down into this funnel (cone) – when it’s screwed all the way down, it’s a closed valve and no paint can pass – as it’s unscrewed, a tiny passage is formed all the way around and paint can flow – as you continue to unscrew, the passage widens and more paint flows.  To make very thin lines, the passage is MINUTE and easy to stop up – which is what still eventually seems to happen.  By lowering the air pressure, I can open the valve a bit wider and avoid clogging a bit longer, but this also generates some spatter…  So we’ll have to see what happens with the new colors next week!  </p>
<p>Thanks for the suggestion!  By the way, I’m using an IWATA Revolution SAR (single action airbrush) – I totally admire the precision engineering of this gun – very tiny and very well machined parts, easy to disassemble and clean, and seems reliable and logical – WAY better than anything I can engineer and I have NO way to machine stuff to these close tolerances and small sizes at all!  Plus I haven’t been struck by any way to improve the thing – it’s quite ingenious and straight forward and…  Well, just very damned cool!</p>
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		<title>By: Tom K</title>
		<link>http://mlyon.com/2007/02/backsliding-jim-painting-80-x-44-inches-image-area-a-colorful-mess/#comment-98</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Feb 2007 20:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mlyon.com/2007/02/backsliding-jim-painting-80-x-44-inches-image-area-a-colorful-mess/#comment-98</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m guessing the clogging forms from the outside of the tip as specks of paint harden. It could be that an unclogable airbrush is not possible, in which case can you not invent an airbrush that checks it&#039;s own work? Or perhaps the tip might need to duck off to a cotton wad and wipe itself on occasion?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m guessing the clogging forms from the outside of the tip as specks of paint harden. It could be that an unclogable airbrush is not possible, in which case can you not invent an airbrush that checks it&#8217;s own work? Or perhaps the tip might need to duck off to a cotton wad and wipe itself on occasion?</p>
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		<title>By: Annie B</title>
		<link>http://mlyon.com/2007/02/backsliding-jim-painting-80-x-44-inches-image-area-a-colorful-mess/#comment-97</link>
		<dc:creator>Annie B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Feb 2007 21:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mlyon.com/2007/02/backsliding-jim-painting-80-x-44-inches-image-area-a-colorful-mess/#comment-97</guid>
		<description>Congratulations, Mike! Of course I have no idea what you&#039;re talking about, but the results are stunning and, as you say, electric. I have faith that you&#039;ll work out the clogging issues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Congratulations, Mike! Of course I have no idea what you&#8217;re talking about, but the results are stunning and, as you say, electric. I have faith that you&#8217;ll work out the clogging issues.</p>
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